From today’s chat queue:
(2020) Glen (NYC)
“I’ve told them I’m not interested. They made up a reason to exclude me and Rob, and refused to back down when shown that their arguments were fabricated. Joining now would only increase their credibility.” – bless you for actually having convictions AND a spine at the same time .. rare combo and if Albert doesn’t win the MVP, they really just need to do away with the award
I’m posting here so that I can say, “Thanks, Glen,” and hope that he sees it.
Keith, just wanted to say I donated 5 bucks to the Jimmy fund after my KLawbaiting Murray (Chasston) comment about the BBWAA.
Do you automatically assume that any question involving Alexei Ramirez is a KLAWbait nowadays, Keith?
He’s right about Albert, FWIW.
What was the reason they gave you? Simply the “internet writer” crap? That’s what I thought it was, but your statement here, particular the point about the crap they made up to counter your legit arguments made me think more as at work. I’d be curious to see both sides of the argument and how it played out.
I agree with Glen. The arguments they made (which I believe Ringolsby detailed in the comments somewhere in this blog) seemed so weak that they must have been thrown together to hide whatever the real reason(s) was for not allowing you and Rob membership.
I have to wonder whether it was the fact that you both wrote for a Web site (which probably gets more readers than almost all of the papers written for by many members of the BBWAA), or that you’re both considered “new school stat freaks” which many of the old guard don’t like.
Personally, I would be a little hurt if I was denied access to a group that gets to vote on awards so prestigious they become the backbone of arguments used countless contract negotiations and arbitration hearings.
Brian: The claim was that they talked to an “ESPN official” who told them that Rob and I do not go to games as part of our jobs. They arbitrarily created a rule saying that you had to go to games to become a member, even though a look at the list of members shows dozens who do not. Regardless, I attended 25 big-league games in person last year, so the “ESPN official” was lying – if he even exists, because I have asked Bob Dutton to divulge this source’s identity, yet he refuses.
I give you credit for being able to avoid the reverse Groucho Marx syndrome: wanting to be accepted to a club that doesn’t want you as a member.
Keith – you’re quite welcome and believe me its my pleasure, the world would be a far better place if people held their ground instead of selling out – i’d settle for even just once and a while
keith, what about the fact that pujols had such a huge problem when ryan howard won the mvp a couple years ago. shouldnt he on principle, not accept his award? afterall, this is what he said:
“Someone who doesn’t take his team to the playoffs doesn’t deserve to win the MVP.”
If you’re making everyone happy, then you’re definetly doing something wrong. Look for the respect from your peers and your fans, if you have that, you’ve got something. I think that applies to all professions. There are baseball fans, and then there are those who truly love the game, and everything about it, and I think I speak for those people and your fans in saying that you are recognized and appreciated. It’s a struggle to find decent writing and/or decent baseball info out there, and you definetly bring both of those with skill. Thanks for all you do. Keep it up. Wow, I think I’ll stop the guidance counselor talk now…
Jason, if a voter determined that Albert was the most valuable player in baseball, but voted for someone else because of a quote Albert made in a news conference two years ago after getting cheated out of an MVP, well, that would just be dumb.
ronaldo, thats not what i was saying. if someone is going to call out another major league player that was maybe just as deserving of the mvp solely because he [pujols] didnt win it, and if his complaint was because he didnt feel howard shouldve won because howard wasnt on a playoff team… well, its very hypocritical of albert to accept the award merely two (three?) years later if the cards dont make the playoffs this year.
i didnt mention anything about the bbwaa not voting for him because of what he said. i dont know how you inferred that from my comment.
Jason, considering Pujols took it back afterwards, I wouldn’t think he has a responsibility to turn it down.
http://www.thesportsdirt.com/mlb/albert-pujols-is-sorry-for-being-a-jerk-to-ryan-howard/
Forced contrition? I don’t put too much stock in that.
I don’t know that it was forced contrition. He and Howard know each other pretty well and are on friendly terms; Howard is a St. Louis native. He probably felt bad.
Maybe I’m cynical, but when people come out and apologize, or put out an apologetic statement, after the fact, I’m predisposed to seeing it as forced. But you could be right; Pujols has always struck me as a good and modest guy.
everyone thinks pujols is a good and modest guy, but thats only because st louis has one beat writer and the city never finds fault in the team. i feel he showed his true colors in the 06 playoffs with his annoyance of the ny media after just two games.
plus the only reason he prob apologized was because the media DID get on him about it and he didnt want to ruin his “reputation.” come on, if he and howard were close friends, why would pujols say ANYTHING disparaging about howard, let alone saying he didnt DESERVE the mvp. thats just sour grapes and poor sportsmanship… and he will look like the biggest jackass if he wins the mvp and doesnt say anything about how he doesnt deserve it in his own set of standards.
One could also interpret Pujols’s comments as frustration because he is better than Howard, had a better year than Howard, is a far superior defender and also took his team to the playoffs. Athletes tend to get themselves in trouble when they say deverse an award more than another player. Pujols did miss a lot of games that year however.
Sure, that’s plausible. But he still shouldn’t have said what he said, and I doubt that when he apologized he really felt contrite about his words. These are, after all, man-children, most of whom suffer from arrested development.
I’m not particularly trying to defend him. I think this is probably a case where Pujols thought he deserved the award and latched on to the easiest reason to explain why he deserved the award. Any deeper analysis by Pujols of why he lost is probably either beyond him or would label him as someone who lives in his mom’s basement and types on the computer all day. Also, I’m sure that Pujols, who seems to have a reputation for some modesty, is still a total egomaniac. It’s probably hard not to be when someone pays you $14m/year.
Keith-
Thanks for the reply. Do you fill out boxscores? I bet the BBRAA loves boxscores and probably will only accept that as evidence of attending a game. That, or Cracker-Jack prizes.
(This is not a knock on filling out boxscores, which is a fun hobby, but is also the sort of “baseball analysis” those guys idolize.)
What a rip… I’d be an egomaniac for way less than $14m/year
True colors? Because the NY media annoyed him? Good grief.
Every dollar of profit from Pujols’ restaurant goes to the Pujols Family Foundation. Pujols has done more for Down’s Syndrome than just about anyone in America over the last 5 years. Unreported, apocryphal stories about his random good deeds are heard around town all the time. His teammates respect him.
But I guess since he got annoyed by Mike Lupica in the locker room once, you know his true colors.
Pujols didn’t say anything disparaging about Howard, he was interviewed in the DR, and said he thought MVPs should come from playoff teams. He didn’t say Howard was a crappy player or a dork or anything of the sort. When the fracas ensued, he backtracked. he shouldn’t have said what he said, but it’s pretty much a non-issue.
I fail to see how the location of the interview has any bearing whatsoever on whether the remark was disparaging or not. But you’re probably right in that Mike Lupica annoys everyone.
The location is irrelevant. But he didn’t say anything bad about Howard. His comment was about the voter’s selection.
Just wanted to add that I agree with Glen. I would much rather read somthing you write, where I actually learn new things about baseball, than guys who can’t think oustide the box. Keep up the good work.
That’s fine, I was just curious as to why you pointed out that the interview was conducted in the DR in your post.
“Someone who doesn’t take his team to the playoffs doesn’t deserve to win the MVP.”
thats not disparaging?
its admirable that he does the charity work that he does. that doesnt relieve him of saying dumb things, being surly, etc. hugo chavez does some amazing things for his countrymen but you know how that goes.
pujols it seems has a hard time giving ANYONE credit… saying glavine was “no good” after he shut the cards out for 7 innings in the 06 playoffs, implying a lot of luck was involved in the dominating performance. Have some class and respect your fellow ball players instead of talking shit about them. the ny media jumped on pujols’ disrespect for future hall of famer and thats why pujols was angry with the media. which only fuels ny beat reporters.
i guess they took his recorded quote out of context too then? and how does one say a player doesnt deserve the award, and then say he never said it… when its all caught on audio?
Plus, he lies about his age! Who knows what other fabrications he’s peddling…
Where is there ANY evidence of Pujols lying about his age? He went to high school in America, for christ’s sake!
Malcolm, only reason I pointed it out is that he may have felt like he was on homes turf, and more free to just let off steam. Doesn’t excuse him of anything of course.
Jason, Hugo Chavez, really?
No it’s not disparaging towards Howard at all. He’s setting a criteria for a BBWAA award. He doesn’t say anything bad about Howard, other than point out that his team didn’t make the playoffs.
About Glavine, so what? Go back and read Keith’s summaries of those games, where he didn’t give Suppan that much credit for game 7. The St. Louis fanbase still kills him for it, too.
Pitchers DO get lucky sometimes. Glavine struck out 2 in 7 innings that game. It doesn’t make Pujols some kind of Chavez-like monster that he called a spade a spade.
It always cracks me up when athletes get condemned by people for saying stuff like this. I don’t know the guy, but on the surface, the guy plays hard and has been a positive force in both the St. Louis community and in the Dominican. If you want to be this upset over him and think that you discovered his “true colors” over a couple comments about opponents, whatever.
Brian… I was being facetious.
Pujols’ listed age is based on documents he presented to get his green card, which occurred prior to 9/11. There have been questions within the game about his age for some time, and I’ve been told a story about his wife telling another player’s wife about his real age (I won’t say how much older, but it was more than one year) that wasn’t sourced well enough to print.
I, uh, personally am annoyed by Mike Lupica from the safety of my couch.
Unlike the issue of players getting caught with PEDs or amphetamines, where I understand there is little recourse for the GM, I would guess that if a player’s age was legally proven to be different, the contract could be torn up, could it not? I mean, if Pujols signed his next deal for 10 years and his age was found to be 3 years older, and he sucked the last years of the contract, couldn’t there be recourse?