Usual time, 1 pm EST.
And yes, I completely forgot the Bonifacio/Willingham trade. Inexcusable error on my part – working on getting it fixed.
UPDATE: I found Angry Dan the Nats Fan and some of his little friends on this message board. None of them realized the Salmon line was a joke. Pretty sure they all owe $5 fines now.
Why are they defending Bowden? I don’t understand. He’s not good at his job, and is keeping their favorite team from improving! You would think they would be screaming for the guy’s head at this point.
Do you usually have this much fun during your chats? There seemed to be a lot of energy, or it could have been just me.
You’re PED analysis was pretty good. I think the average person doesn’t realize skill is different than athleticism.
One question for the group: Why is it illegal for Miggy to lie to Congress when Congressional members lie to us every day and haven’t gone to jail? There is nothing worse than a pontificating politician in front of a camera. If Miggy’s deported, my money is on Raffy P driving Miggy to the border.
By no means do I think Miggy will be deported, I’m just trying too hard to be funny.
@Chris: You know how a person might criticize a family member all the time, but if you echo the criticism they’ll leap to the defensive and yell at you for attacking their family member? I get the feeling it’s kind of like that. Bowden hasn’t been a good GM, but he’s their GM, dammit, and seeing someone else criticize him is like seeing their whole team criticized. I will cop to sometimes getting my dander up a little when I see Hendry in the crosshairs.
Part of it also is probably just misdirected anger at watching their team be run by someone who isn’t doing a good job of it and simply not being able to do anything about it.
Keith,
I agree that in an individual at bat basis PEDs probably do not make much of a difference. In other words, it didn’t suddenly make Barry Bonds able to hit a homerun.
However, are you willing to agree that using PEDs to recover quicker and perhaps limit injury might lead to increased counting numbers over the course of a year or career.
Basically, assuming Bonds used PEDs in the 2000s we saw what his performance would’ve been had he never been injured and/or was not held back by nagging injuries.
If you go that route you have to consider PEDs a super form of asprin and probably not that big of a deal. However, it would help those people who see Brady Anderson: 51HRs and feel the psychological need to say that it was due to PEDs.
Agreed with Myk on the benefits of steroids. If if they don’t say, increase bat speed, there are demonstrated benefits that can be of use to players, most especially injury recovery time.
But in general, it seems (and empirical evidence could yet prove this to be untrue) they’re more trouble than they’re worth, especially for position players who are generally in good health, like A-Rod.
And I get the echinacea argument, Keith.
But shouldn’t Boras have hammered into his client’s head that he was taking a big risk with limited returns?
From that message board:
“What Law is completely ignoring is that Dunn will not COST us a draft pick right now, as he was not offered arbitration, yet he is a strong contender to net us a draft pick at the end of his contract, as long as he is a type A free agent at that time.
So at the very least, he *could* end up getting us a late first-rounder in two years, which would add a long-term gain to the short-term production we’re getting out of him.”
Paying 20 million just for the opportunity to screw up another negotiation?
Keith, I have to say, I love the baseball knowledge but the best part of you’re chats are you’re rants. Your the best righter at ESPN, bye far.
I’ll posit that steroid use actually increases one’s risk of injury. Steroids definitely affect musculature, but they don’t affect the support mechanisms in the body – tendons, ligaments, bones. And if HGH – which allows you to sit around the house and build muscle – doesn’t do anything for you on the ballfield, then it is hard to argue that steroids and lifting translates to baseball production.
Do you have a general email? How do I send a question that is dish related rather than posting randomly in the comments?
Please, PLEASE, more Angry Dan. And more posts from people who think you’re having a stellar chat two hours before it starts. (And keep liberally selecting those salt-of-the-earth fellows for posting, of course.)
It’s the whiskey in you pour in our baseball coffee that makes those a great read. (NOTE: This is posted hours AFTER the chat.)
I live in the DC area and love Bowden as GM. As long as he is there you will be able to get great seats for cheap prices at the last minute.
How could they not see that the Salmon line was a joke? The worst part of that message board is that they seem to believe that Tex is STILL an Angel.
Next week’s lesson: there, their, they’re
2 pages of Klaw rants on the message board, and still no mention of your/you’re…
ZIMMERMANN
Oh my. Delightful. Don’t know if I missed it Keith, but why no link to the questions you answered over on bbtia? (http://www.bbtia.com/home/2009/2/10/keith-law-prospect-qa.html)
good to have you back and running chats
KLaw, why is the Nats farm in such bad shape, I thought this Rizzo is supposed to be the best in the business? Isn’t he doing a good job or did he simply inherit a mess?
I’m sure the anonymity is worth more than the free drinks/dinner but if not, you should forewarn your fellow wdc worker fans when you’re hitting up wdw.
Best. Chat. EVER.
Seriously Klaw, never more entertaining.
Keith Rocks….
I don’t entirely agree about PEDs but the perspective is nearer rational than some writers who treat it like they robbed a bank.
I guess my man who is a Nats fan would have had his fill today…. No doubt it will be called Capital bias not Sox/Yanks now….
You know that the Nats fans will be making every game a referendum now…. Can’t miss chats all season now…
Great stuff…. You’re a genius Keith.
Dukes doesn’t take walks? At least saying Emilio Bonifacio plays for the Nats was true at one point in time.
Was just reading the chat and got to thinking a little. I was wondering if you have a quick, easy way to remember when to use affect or effect. Thanks
Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.
http://steroids-and-baseball.com/
It’s less about defending Bowden and more about the fact that no matter what the Nats do, whether it be positive, or negative in any way, shape, form, or fashion, Keith Law goes out of his way to smash the Nats and their fans with a sledgehammer about it, just because he hates Bowden.
Personally, I don’t think Bowden is a good gm. He’s horrible when left to his own devices, and below average with adult supervision. But I don’t think that warrants the sheer amount of venom that Law CONSTANTLY throws at the Nationals for *everything*.
I’ve not seen that amount of venom given to any other team from him.
and *that* is the problem we “Whiny Nats Fans” have with Keith Law.
It’s got little to do with Bowden himself.
Sometimes effect is also a verb.
oh, and please, don’t turn 1 or 2 people into “None of them” or “all of them”.
some of us do have some semblance of a clue.
thanks.
Mr. Law, I’m the owner and administrator of the message board in question, and I’ll be happy to host a moderated thread in which you discuss your article and/or thoughts on our organization with us. I don’t expect you’ll accept or even respond, but the invitation stands nonetheless. Date and time of your choosing.
John IV: In all likelihood, the issue is that you don’t read as much of my stuff about other teams. I toss firebombs at every dumb move. Ask Royals fans how I felt about the Mike Jacobs trade – perhaps the most vitriolic reaction piece I’ve ever written.
It’s the egocentric view that so many Nats fans take that cracks me up. I frequently throw venom at your GM … because your GM is the worst in the game. But to Nats fans – or, really, this bizarro cult within Nats fans – it’s all about you. It has to be personal. It’s not possible that your GM is just bad at GMing.
When the Nats make good moves, I praise them. I liked their 2007 Draft day one, although they went cheap on day two and knocked themselves out of my top 5. I praised the Olsen/Willingham trade, the Kearns/Lopez trade, and the Milledge trade.
As for “hating” Bowden, I’ve had one conversation with him in my life, on Draft Day 2009. It was absolutely cordial. I’ve never had any other interactions with him at all. It’s stupid to accuse me of “hating” anyone – just not how I operate – but it’s dumber when I don’t even know the guy. I ripped Dave Littlefield’s moves regularly, who happens to be a genuinely nice guy, because he was a terrible GM.
“Chief:” I’m amused by your tough-guy stance, but really, given the behavior of some of your users who’ve tried to post here (and been deleted in moderation) or who posted on the ESPN Conversation (calling me, among other things, a moron, a clown, scum, garbage, and a piece of shit, as well as libelling me by claiming I was fired by the Blue Jays), I’m not interested.
Mitch: Paul’s right, but I just don’t use effect as a verb, which means there’s no risk of confusion.
Paul: Sorry, I actually thought I’d mentioned it.
JW: Because I forgot. Thanks for putting it up there.
Pat: You can post it here, but I’ll email you too.
“You can affect an effect.”
The a/effects are in alphabetical order in the sentence. It’s not ironclad, but it seems to have helped the people to whom I’ve given it.
You’re just afraid that you will be exposed on Chief’s website. These are people who didn’t even have to look up on Wiki the fact that Salmon is no longer playing or that Teixeira is no longer with the Angels. They know it off the top of their heads, unlike you! They also understand the power a player of Adam Dunn’s caliber can have on turning around a franchise that previously wasn’t expected to compete for even fourth place in the division. Why do you get paid to work for ESPN?
As it may be, Bowden is bad, weve seen that. Has he made progress? Yes. By the likely hood of the deal you referred to, the Bonafacio/Willingham one. Forgetting it, though, just doesn’t seem liable if you “praised” it. Taking it personal has nothing to do with it, but actually referring to posters as ‘Whiny Nats Fans’, now thats a direct comment towards the fan base. Defending is nature, you do it when people make cracks at you, IE here, and we do it when you challenge are fandome (YOU CHALLENGING MY FANHOOD?)
I mean obviously you have a job at ESPN so your good at it somehow, but just making stabs at readers doesn’t seem professional. Sorry we took your mistake so seriously and we should bow down like other “Klaw” followers do.
Hi Keith, guess I’m one of Dan’s “little” friends, since I post on WNFF as well. I wondered about the Salmon thing, it seemed too blatent, but following the Bonifacio mishap, anything seemed possible.
Why do Nats fans defend Bowden? Sometimes first impressions carry too much weight, perhaps. When Jimbo arrived, he actually tried to field a competitive team, in sharp contrast to Omar Minaya, who seemed bent on total distruction. Fans appreciated his effort and his intensity.
OH NO KEITH THE INTERNET IS MAD AT YOU!
Seriously though, speaking from experience, message board hatred is amusing more than anything.
Also, lol @ James.
Keith, it was a sincere invite, and had you chosen to accept, I would have done my honest best to ensure a fair and civilized discussion. I have no need of posturing or “tough guy” stances. It’s an internet message board, whoop-dee-doo. I don’t personally care much about the opinions of sportswriters, but I’m always open to the addition of another voice on my site. Unless you’re new to the internet, I’m sure you must be aware that any message board will have it’s share of name-calling and other tomfoolery, but rest assured there is plenty of intelligent discussion there as well.
To be frank, someone in your position should be above this type of nonsense. I find it hard to believe that you’re honestly surprised to find the fans of a team you’ve written a negative piece about calling you names on the internet. But I’m even more surprised to see you responding in the manner you have.
The Nats have a message board? That’s cute. At least Chief will never have to worry about a server upgrade.
I looked up stockholm syndrome, and it redirected me to Nationals message boards.
Cheif – Based on his previous writings, whether they be here, his ESPN columns, or his chats…I don’t think that he is “surprised” by the venomous response to his article about Dunn. As KLaw mentioned, he got plenty of venom after the Jacobs trade from KC fans, and last season when he was talking about Alexei Ramirez being overhyped (just to name a couple). Nor, based on his writings does he show any feelings that he is hurt or upset by the name-calling, etc. instead his writing merely seems to show that he finds it all very amusing that fans take columns as personal attacks on themselves rather than on the team’s management. He writes about it merely to amuse the rest of us who are able to separate the two, and possibly for his own amusement as well (tho I don’t want to speak for him on this). His comments, such as pointing out that those calling him names after he mocks the GM of their favorite team are whiners, along with his obviously sarcastic comments such as the Salmon remark. As to his not accepting your invitation, I’m pretty sure that he has better things to do than make the same points that he has been making in another forum where the people write like C Mick up above me here, and based on my reading of the comments are completely unreceptive to anything except praise for a crappy GM who signs a player in Dunn that really does nothing to help them get to the playoffs, which should be their ultimate goal.
Thanks.
I hope James has sent in his $100 check. Otherwise, he needs to let the door hit him on the way out. At least he used “their” and “you’re” correctly.
Thats where your wrong Matt. You take it as if we should know Keith Laws columns and care about it. And as stated, we took it personal, or at least a few did, because he labeled us “Whiny Nats Fans”.
So Im giving it back, sure the ONE article you read may show some of us giving positive remarks to Bowden on the signing, but thats because he should receive where due. Very little does he do something like this, except for the Dukes, Milledge and Willingham/Olsen snag.
You should read other topics, and believe me, therse alot of negative ones as well, like Keith Law pointed out.
He should take criticizing since hes a professional, but dishing it out he should expect to get some back. Amusing? Sure it is, fun for both.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect
I don’t blame him for declining my invite, nor am I surprised. You’re absolutely right that he probably has better things to do, but I would have previously thought he’d have better things to do than get into a pissing contest with irate fans in comment threads, too.
Chief: He’s not getting into a pissing contest with you. That you think he is speaks loudly to your place in this story.
I labelled Nats fans who whine that I hate their team or their GM as “whiny Nats fans.” The shoe seemed to fit.
Chief: “I don’t expect you’ll accept or even respond” – that’s your tough-guy stance. Very childish. I’ve been responding to critics since the day I started chatting in July of ’06. Make a good counterargument and I’ll listen and respond. Whine and call me names and I’ll expose you and mock you. Both angles are good for business.
That you think I hold that view speaks loudly to your reading comprehension. I’m not irate, nor have my comments here been. I find this all rather amusing, in fact. Even hilarious. I was simply referring to the back-and-forth he had with Dan and others in the comments section of his original article.
So Chief: You find this amusing. Keith finds this amusing.
WTF is your problem, then?
Im sure a problem would be is that, he quoted property of Chiefs, the message board, and generalized everyone on it.
Keith, I have no problem with you personally, I’m just sticking up for my little corner of the web and it’s denizens. I imagine my opinion means as little to you as yours does to me, but I appreciate the free traffic and entertainment. I also find it delicious that you call me childish and then go on to boast about how you spend your weeknights mocking people on the internet. Bravo.
And just for the record, my invitation was completely sincere. I could easily moderate a discussion on my site wherein you would hear many very rational counterarguments without being subjected to ridicule and insult as any Nats fan who posts on this blog currently is by your supporters. As I said before, I have no use for tough-guy stances. I said what I said because I truly did not expect a response. Believe me or not, it’s all the same to me.
I just want to reiterate that this isn’t really about Bowden for me. any of the other “whiny nats fans” on our forum will attest, I despise the guy, perhaps even more that Keith does, if that is even possible. If it were up to me, he’d have been gone after ’05, or at least the very second Mike Rizzo showed up.
My beef with Law is his overall tone in regards to any and everything Nationals-related. Nats do something that most people regard as negative, he hits it with a sledgehammer. Nats do something that most people regard as positive, he hits it with a sledgehammer. At least he’s consistent in that regard. The Nats get the sledgehammer no matter what.
I’m not asking for rainbows and sunshine here, dude. But quit trying so hard to depress Nats Fans and make them jump off a bridge here, willya? The Nats did a good enough job of that last season without your help.
and Dunn signing for 3 or 4 years or longer would be a terrible signing. Him here for 2 isn’t nearly as bad as you and your “fans” on this blog make it out to be.
Wow, every time Chief posts it only serves to further Keith’s point about Nat’s fans. You talk about Keith getting into a pissing contest – there is no one in professional sportswriting that takes the amount of time that he does in his chats, in his replies to comments from his articles, and on his personal blog. And keep in mind this is his personal blog. You’re a guest here, and your attitude is really not welcome. Not my place to say, but I’ll say it anyway.
Cool Bob, I understand your view but here, we can post comments at will. With a moderation of course, but it succeeds. Him posting here does not prove anything, he’s not crying like a little girl (look at Whiny) hes trying to clear up the situation. I guess being 100% clear on a subject is a bad thing.