Usual time, 1 pm EST.
And yes, I completely forgot the Bonifacio/Willingham trade. Inexcusable error on my part – working on getting it fixed.
UPDATE: I found Angry Dan the Nats Fan and some of his little friends on this message board. None of them realized the Salmon line was a joke. Pretty sure they all owe $5 fines now.
Bob: My first posts were very reasonable, and in response I got talked down to and mocked. He admitted this himself. So when he takes the unwarranted next step and calls me “childish” I indulge myself slightly by pointing out that he is being quite a hypocrite. Please explain to me how my example is furthering his generalizations.
I may be a guest here but where I’m from you don’t insult your guests repeatedly when they’ve given you no reason to do so.
C Mick- your command of the English language (and the most elementary principles of sentence structure) is teetering on hilarious right now. Surely I owe somebody 5 dollars at the point, right?
Thanks, that’s why I’m a professional writer right? I can make mistakes, I don’t write stuff for a job. I’m not spending time on this. As long as it’s legible and can get my point across, you understand. I’m not writing to get graded. This isn’t a formal document, it’s the internet. I tend to write like I talk somewhat. I’m that good that I can switch on and off.
hahaha
Okay then, I guess I can put my wallet away (2 percent of me still thinks this is an elaborate bait-job (and admittedly brilliant, at this point).
Hope you enjoyed Orlando, personally as a native Floridian I have no use for it. I bet this changes once I have small children.
Even though I am a huge Marlins fan I hope the voters in Miami-Dade do the right thing too.
Seriously, is this what you guys do with your time? The Nationals won 71, 73, and 59 games in the last three years, all with the same guy in charge. They’re not that good. Neither is the GM. Yet you somehow think that a baseball analyst having a negative take on their moves more than 50% of the time is a sign of bias rather than quality baseball analysis? Do you want analysts to lie to you?
“Defending is nature, you do it when people make cracks at you, IE here, and we do it when you challenge are fandome (YOU CHALLENGING MY FANHOOD?)”
I can’t speak for anyone else really, but it seems obvious that Keith wasn’t trying to insult your fanhood, or the mysterious Dome of Fans that you’re referring to. If he wanted to do that, he likely would have noted that you all probably rooted for Baltimore until you found out that a team would be moving 10 minutes closer, at which point you decided to start telling people that you’ve been “waiting your entire life for a team to come back to DC!”; you know, even if the Senators skipped town 20 years before you were born. He probably would’ve said something like that.
Oh and Chief – for the love of all that is good and holy, could you please post a thread on youre message board to show that your at least working on you’re members’ obvious issues with the English language? It’s somewhat frightening that it seems to afflict every single DEFENDER OF THE NATS that posts on here.
I love the cute little fans who can only think of sports analysis in terms of “giving credit” or “hating.”
As a life-long Reds fan, I can only shake my head in disbelief at the defending of Bowden. Sure, the Nationals are rated near the bottom in major league talent (and no, Dunn, despite being one of my favorite players, does not instantly catapult the team into respectability) and in the quality of its farm system, but I’m sure none of that is Bowden’s fault.
Of course, as a DC resident, I haven’t heard people get excited about the Dunn signing to the point that they are running out and buying season tickets. Dunn’s 40 homers couldn’t get the Reds out of the lower-tier of attendance, so why would anyone expect this to be a good business move? Dunn just seems like Bowden’s most expensive “Cincinnati-East Nationals” move yet.
Chief: I discuss and argue with readers on ESPN Conversations all the time. The company encourages dialogue with readers, and the readers really seem to like it, judging by the feedback I get from them both on Conversations and on email. Unfortunately, some readers can’t comport themselves like adults, like your own Angry Dan, but I give readers the benefit of the doubt until they descend into name-calling or slander and we have to delete their posts.
Hey Klaw, miss me?
I must have really gotten under your skin to get all this love. I am quite proud of myself.
Ok, so the Salmon line was a joke? How are we supposed to tell when your articles are littered with just plain errors?
Dukes doesn’t hit for power or walk enough? He played 81 games last year: 13 HRs, 16 2B, 50BB. Over a full season that is 26 HRs, 32 doubles, and 100 walks. Care to recant that? I did see you said he wouldn’t walk more then 60 times next year. You’re clearly wrong here.
Zimmerman, despite to getting hurt last year, is still averaging 70 extra-base hits a year, at 24. That’s not hitting for power?
Oh and then you dropped this gem: Felix Pie has “power potential.” In 130 games, he has hit a whopping 3 HRs in his career.
Well, care to defend those gaffes?
whatthehelliswrongwithyoupeople – “Oh and Chief – for the love of all that is good and holy, could you please post a thread on youre message board to show that your at least working on you’re members’ obvious issues with the English language? ”
Hopefully those “yours” in there are simply various recipes for Salmon.
And yes, some of us were Senators fans before the Baltimore crud got jammed down our throats. Now, I’m going home to play with our new “Hondosaurus”.
I think some clarification is in order here, in regards to Bowden.
Keith, you and your guys here seem to be under the impression that we at WNFF all love Jim Bowden unconditionally, and are incapable or unwilling to see the faults in our team and its management. Rose Colored Glasses and such.
Pardon my language, but let me make this as clear as humanly possible: all of you are DEAD. ASS. WRONG.
I challenge any of you regulars here to come to our forum, and read anything other than the one Keith Law thread, and draw that conclusion. I assure you that it isn’t possible.
You guys, especially Keith, are making vast generalizations based on 2 or 3 people who took issue with your constant Nat-bashing, and responded to it with vitriol.
There are very few people who would actually be upset if Bowden were fired tomorrow. I’d say roughly 75% of Nats fans in general don’t like the guy. On our forum alone, there are probably 2 people out of all the posters there who actually *like* Bowden as a GM.
Yes, the Nationals are bad. We know that MUCH, MUCH better than any of you do, and we don’t really need it beaten into our skulls on a daily basis.
Now, I’ll give you three VERY GOOD reasons why we aren’t “Screaming for Bowden’s head”, as one of your commenters put it:
1) Most(but not all) of us have been screaming for his head since 2005, and it’s getting rather old.
2) Fire Jim Bowden does a pretty good job of it for us these days. Saves us a lot of time and energy. http://firejimbowden.blogspot.com/
3)We are too busy screaming at the Team’s Ownership for being a bunch of cheap asses to be worried about screaming at Bowden.
Lastly Keith, I’d say that your last statement here goes both ways. Keep in mind that here, on your personal website, YOU called out our entire forum of “whiny nats fans”(your words, not mine), based on the responses of about 3 people on the ESPN website.
Incidentally, I’d love to know which one of your commenters tried to register on our forum as “NATSARENTAREALTEAM”. I’m sure he was coming to our forum for an in-depth discussion on Nick Johnson’s plate discipline. This is where it is stated that you can’t control what your commenters do, and at which point I will say that we can’t control what all of our posters do either.
So I would like to think that “comporting themselves like adults” pendulum should swing both ways.
So let’s stick to the argument at hand, and cease with the blame game, please. K?
Ok, so the Salmon line was a joke? How are we supposed to tell when your articles are littered with just plain errors?
Really, not many people seem to have this problem. If you have problem excepting errors that are typographical or as a result of not devoting enough time to your text before hitting enter, you either have naively high standards for internet discourage or a bone to pick.
Or both.
A great exemplar, discourage should be discourse, above.
Keith: I can appreciate your position, my only gripe was that you made assumptions about me based on the postings of others. That said, I’m sure you get bombarded with angry comments quite often, so I can’t fault you for automatically thinking the worst.
Thanks again for the traffic & comedy. I hope you know that I truly intend no sarcasm or insult when I say that this has all been an incredibly good laugh for me.
@everyone else on both sides: it’s the internet, chill out.
“This is madness!”
“This is . . . . THE DISH!!!!!!!!!”
(The collected thoughts of sportswriter, bookwork, and food critic Keith Law)
For the record — I am NOT a Bowden fan. And I do agree with Law that he should have flipped players like Young and Guzman rather then extend them.
There isn’t a Nationals fan out there that is happy with Kearns’ contract.
But rather then answering legitimate questions such as who was available for Soriano that was better then what the Nats got you rely on insults.
Respect is earned and not given, Keith. And you have done nothing to earn it here.
So Rhino,
I should be held to a higher standard with my posts on a blog, then a professional writer should be in the content of his articles?
Dan:
I said of Dukes (in chat): He’s one of, what, three guys in that lineup now who might draw 60 walks in a full season? That’s not saying he wouldn’t walk more than 60 times. That’s saying they don’t have any guys besides him, Dunn, and Willingham who could draw 60 walks in a full season. And even for Dukes, that’s assuming that his major-league walk rates are the true measure of his ability and his minor-league walk rates (never bad, but nowhere near as high) are out of date and irrelevant.
Zimmerman’s ISO was just .159 last year and .188 the year before. That’s not hitting for power, not for a corner bat, and it’s headed in the wrong direction. He’s always lacked patience and has always had a glide that forces him to rely on his upper body for power. “Averaging 70 extra-base hits a year” is just statistical chicanery. He had 39 last year and his trend is downward.
Pie: If he was hitting for power already, it wouldn’t be “potential,” would it?
I think fundamentally your problem is that you see what you want to see when you read an article, rather than what’s actually there. You’re looking for “gaffes,” but aside from the Bonifacio gaffe (again, an inexcusable memory lapse on my part), they’re just not there.
Wait, wait, wait…….DC has a baseball team?
In all seriousness, this has gotten ridiculous. I’m assuming Angry Dan and co. are not regular readers of Keith. If you were, you wouldn’t take any of this personal. Go to Keith’s chat archive and read his old chats. He’s taken shots at just about every GM in MLB. As you read a columnist frequently you get a feel for their tone and sense of humor. The Salmon joke flying over your heads tells me you haven’t done your research.
I’ve been reading Keith’s columns and chats at ESPN for a few years now, yesterday’s Dunn column was the first time I can ever remember seeing a correction. Your accusations of Keith being ill-informed are weak.
I look forward to seeing one of you guys on “Around the Horn” someday. I’m pulling for you.
And here is my issue.
You consistently downplay the Nationals players. I don’t know why. And you are the only one who does it. No one else is as highly critical as you are.
Case in point: your praise for Felix Pie’s “power potential” while holding Zimmerman, Dukes, and Lastings Milledge to a higher standard saying “they don’t hit for enough power,” despite Pie and Milledge being the same age.
I just don’t understand your logic.
So, with pitchers and catchers reporting tomorrow (thank God!), I will drop this. And as the Zen Master said…”we shall see.”
Keith, the only other “gaffe” I see in the column is: “Dunn didn’t net a draft pick for Arizona, so there’s no reason to assume the Nats will get a pick or two for him after 2010”
That’s not exactly sound reasoning. I don’t know the Elias system well, but I’d have to expect that a 40HR/100RBI player would get type A, despite the batting average limitations if the team he was leaving decided to offer arbitration.
Other than that, the gallant chivalry in defense of poor maiden Bowden is cracking me up.
Chief, et al: Keith certainly doesn’t need me to defend him, his work stands on its own merit. But when I wrote how accessible he is, I wasn’t sucking up or simply trying to win you over, because I honestly care very little about what you personally think (and I’m sure the feeling is mutual). I send Keith questions and he always gets back to me. His chats are of legendary proportion. And more importantly, he is extremely knowledgeable about baseball (and other topics as well, though that part isn’t relevant to this discussion at the moment). He is a scout, not just some analyst. He goes to games and watches players and forms opinions based on what he sees and what his own radar gun reports. He has major league front office experience. He is extremely well versed in metrics, and one of the reasons he may be somewhat controversial to those who don’t read him on a regular basis is that he challenges traditional views of the value of things like RBI, pitcher won-loss records, etc. And he is brutally honest in his assessments and has a snarky sense of humor. As they say, if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And the kitchen just happens to be another place where Keith excels btw.
Keith,
Thanks for the chat yesterday, the first time I’ve seen it mentioned that PEDs may have no effect beyond placebo.
It’d be great to read a post here either linking resources about PEDs’ documented effects, or even a summary of what you yourself have learned.
Dan: I don’t know how or why you’ve linked those two things together. I’ve never said that Pie had more power, potential or otherwise, than any of those Nats players. Nor would I. The Pie question was in the context of the Orioles’ acquisition of him. They got him for free, and I think he still has upside. This is another example of you seeing what you want to see.
Ronaldo: I’m not disputing his eventual Elias type, but whether after the 2010 season, the Nats will offer Dunn arbitration and see him leave AND net two picks for him. (They may not include a first-rounder, either; just ask the Blue Jays about that.) Dunn will be 31, worse defensively, no better offensively, exiting his offensive peak, and coming off of two years in the worst hitters’ park in which he’s ever played. Unless you believe that the baseball market of 2010-11 will pay substantially more per win produced than this winter’s market, an assumption that they will get two picks for him is irrationally exuberant.
Keith, maybe it’s just the “so” in that sentence
(The D-Backs didn’t get one, SO no reason to assume that the Nats will)
that implies a logic fail. You hit the chatters for comments like this, you know, even if there may be soundly unwritten deduction behind them.
I know it’s far from certain that they’ll get a Type A or even a type B.
Also, this link popped up yesterday. Was pretty interesting, not much new here, except the part on androgen receptors was something I have never seen.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-rod-steroids-better-athlete
I’m a Nats fan, and I support Keith Law.
It’s kind of amazing that a team that has existed for all of four seasons has already developed this rabid, crazy fan base. And people said baseball wouldn’t succeed in DC.
Hightower, I believe that JC Bradbury on his Sabernomics blog has a lot of links on the PEDs. That is the first place I read and heard about PEDs not having any noticeable positive effect for baseball players. If I recall correctly, it was HGH that he had the most information about, but I believe there was also some info on different types of steroids.
Keith
Love your work, but you hammered a guy on the Garland/Porcello comp. when he was just repeating an answer from J. Manuel’s chat the other day and probably was just looking for confirmation from you.
“What’s your take on Porcello? Bothered much by the low K/9, or impressed at what he did while focusing on secondary pitches? When the Tigers take the reins off, will he dominate? And if the Ks don’t come up, he still looks a lot like Roy Halladay to me.
SportsNation John Manuel: Got a Jon Garland comp on him last year that sticks in my head. Halladay is a good name to bring up as a high-end version of that kind of pitcher. I’ll go the middle route, I think his slider’s good enough to become more of a K pitch eventually.”
Ronaldo: I think it’s pretty clear what I meant. The fact that the Dbacks didn’t get a pick means that assuming that the Nats will get a pick is questionable.
@ Angry Dan –
Did you see in Keith’s chat yesterday that he said Adam Miller of the Indians could be a dominate reliever this year? Guess that means he thinks the Washington bullpen is terrible.
Thanks Keith for making a positive remark about an Indians player, I will now assume this means you have a personal relationship with Mark Shapiro and would never think about bashing the Indians.
I’m confused about all the people who are complaining about the negative things that Keith writes about their team.
1) It is silly to think any national writer has a vendetta about a certain team or fan based
2) No one FORCES you to read his material. If you don’t like what he writes then DON’T READ IT. This might seem like a strange concept…but its pretty simple.
Besides…we all know he really hates my team the Mariners. There is no way that he can hate the Nationals when his entire hateful heart is directed at hating my favorite team.
So basically you’re suggesting that the D-Backs decision was driven by the notion that an arb award would exceed his market value.
I think it’s considerably more complicated than that, and has more to do with 2009 budget constraints, Eric Byrnes, and Conor Jackson, but okay, I can see where you’re coming from. I remove my “gaffe” accusation, and simply disagree 🙂
Windi said “It’s kind of amazing that a team that has existed for all of four seasons has already developed this rabid, crazy fan base. And people said baseball wouldn’t succeed in DC.”
DC’s something like the 6th largest market, and an affluent one at that, so plenty of disposable income, HOWEVER, many people in the area have, in the 33 missing years, adopted other teams or brought allegiences from their prior homes. Yes, we have a solid core of real fans, some like me who used to watch the Senators in RFK, others who never fell for the Orioles’ marketing of themselves as DC’s team.
The Nats need to be competitive to draw well, but if they can be competitive they WILL draw well. Just look at what the Caps are doing this season for a leading indicator of likely fan support.
I’m not intending any slight here, but since the DC fanbase is fickle about all teams other than the Redskins and Maryland men’s basketball, does that mean that is truly a strong sports town or that they are really just the east coast version of Dodgers fans who come when they win and stay away when they lose?
“I’m not intending any slight here, but since the DC fanbase is fickle about all teams other than the Redskins and Maryland men’s basketball, does that mean that is truly a strong sports town or that they are really just the east coast version of Dodgers fans who come when they win and stay away when they lose?”
Half the population is not from here – these are your typical bandwagoners. Generally they aren’t going to develop a strong enough affinity to supersede loyalty to their own home teams they grew up with. However, many of these like baseball and will come – if the product is good enough.
DC has a LOT of teams to follow, every major pro sport plus Terps, Navy, Mason, Georgetown college sports, not to mention everything you can imagine for other entertainment – music, museums, you name it.
Being without a team for 33 years, the Orioles marketed heavily in this region, attracting what is for the Nats now a missing generation of fans. Older fans view the Orioles with contempt, for their overt efforts to prevent us from getting our own team. MY kids are growing up Nats fans, they don’t see any appeal to Baltimore at all.
Some people have expressed surprise at the modest attendance recorded last season in a new park. However, I find it a bit condescending, the notion that a building is more attractive to me than a good team is. The park is nice, it’s going to be a great destination for visiting fans, and it’s going to be a very comfortable home for me and other Nats fans, but we want a winning team above all.
LOL @ fans.
What I think is funny is that Dan’s signature now reads: “I fought the law …”
I’m pretty sure the end of that line is “… and the Law won.”
see that the Nats may have been ripped off by a ringer… this week’s chat cannot come soon enough….