From a reader named Dante:
Your wrong about Rice ,he is most Deserved
Well that just settles it.
What I really don’t get is what possesses someone to go through all the effort to find my ESPN mailbag … and then send that message.
→ January 11, 2009
→ By
→ By
I don’t know about you but his argument certainly has swayed me. lol
Hey, I know that fans fall in love with their favorite players and have a difficult time separating fact from fiction when it comes to whether or not those players deserve enshrinement. I, myself, as a Cubs fan could never understand why Andre Dawson wasn’t a shoo-in for the HOF. But then I started reading guys like you, Klaw, and I learned to judge ballplayers by things other than home runs and rbi…it’s like a maturation process that some apparently haven’t mastered perhaps.
Now, as to why these same people also haven’t mastered the art of persuation…well, I don’t have an answer for that one.
Hi Keith,
I couldn’t find your healthcare post from some months ago. You should read Robert Samuelson’s Newsweek column. Here’s the link:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/178872/page/1
hey, maybe in Hell, Jim Rice would be most deserved of being in their version of the HOF. unfortunately, he’ll most likely end up in both versions
Pedro Gomez was kidding when he filled out that ballot, right?
Keith, after Rice does get elected into the HOF today, who becomes the next cause for the uninformed masses?
Adam,
I would have to guess that Dawson would be the next guy getting the same kind of support as Rice, including people using Rice as a comparable player that was elected.
I wonder if Dawson ever makes into the Hall the same way as Rice, slowly building over the years until he gets the required votes.
And how do Dave Parker and Dale Murphy compare to Rice/Dawson? It seems like they’re close enough to at least get some of the push received by Rice/Dawson.
I was very disappointed to see the ballots of your colleagues at ESPN. Most included Rice, but even more disappointing is how few voted for trammel and Raines. I agree that it is not all about stats, but the fact that most of those guys have been persuaded be the whole fear argument is ludacris, the have been convinced by other writers trying to get their guy in, this has become politics and not about the accomplishments of someones career. This situation somewhat makes me think that some people are no longer objective voters. It is saddening. We should go out and find some hitters and ask them how feard Blyleven was or some catchers how afraid they were when Raines got on base, start a campaign of sorts.
Your wrong about Dante ,he is most Deserved
I don’t want Rice in, but I’m just freaking glad that one way or another, this debate comes to a close (for the most part) today. No more Shaughnessey, no more listening to people like Dante. Joe Posnanski doesn’t have to commit blog space for the umpteenth time explaining why, no, Jim Rice is not HOF material.
Of course, the volume will just get louder on Jack Morris now. . .
If Rice deserves to get in, then what about Dale Murphy? What about Dwight Evans? What about Fred Lynn? What about Fred McGriff? The list goes on and on of great players that were borderline HOF…although, Murphy & McGriff are close in my mind.
Rice, though…I pass. I grew up watching him in Boston and he was a heck of a player, but he fizzled out too soon…HOF means above and beyond for your career…not just a sample of your career.
I’m surprised Dawson received 67% of the vote, this seems to be a clear sign that he’s destined to be enshrined in Cooperstown either in 2010 or 2011. And least Blyleven jumped up to the mid 60s as well.
Sadly Raines and Trammell don’t appear to have much of a chance. At least Raines still has 13 years to build a “feared” reputation.
I like your use of the verb “possesses” as a nice literary counterpoint to Dante’s inability to refrain from using the possessive where it isn’t warranted.
By all accounts, Jim Rice seems to be a pretty nice guy and a good but not great baseball player. The nice guy really creates the problem for me, because the lack of intentional walks and his inability to be an unstable lunatic makes it really hard for me to envision him as a feared hitter. But Albert Belle should be a shoo-in now. People were genuinely afraid of him. Throw in some Dawsonian sobbing about ravaged hips and we can Puckett Albert Belle into the hall at long last.
Did Jay Bell really get a vote?
I really wish Rice hadn’t made it in. Aside from the fact that he shouldn’t be in the HoF, it would have been great sport to see Dan Shaughnessy’s head explode.
Gammons is probably as giddy as a school girl today.
I think each voter should look at their ballot as if it were the only ballot. That way, they would needlessly vote for guys like Jay Bell.
And really, what version of baseball were they watching to not recognize Tim Raines as one of the best lead-off men ever? If it’s the cocaine thing, I guess Paul Molitor needs to be removed from the HoF?
Heard you on shrutebag’s show this morning. I thought you missed an opportunity to call him on the “most feared argument.” Also, I don’t think you stressed the park effect argument enough.
When does the name change to the Hall of Really Good?
Is it true the Red Sox put a push behind Rice a few years ago? After the stats department failed the marketing one came up with F-E-A-R-E-D one assumes.
The one that cracked me up was someone rattling about Rice did this before small ball parks became the norm when his rep exists on unadjusted figures from a park favourable to him, Doh (unless you believe the hilarious the Monster stopped so many of his line drives being home runs crack).
I am sure Alf’ Soriano is feared as he can knock you out of the park when the wind blows out at Wrigley but he is not a Haller.
Not sure the Expos/Nats will with Raines especially as he is just the kind of under rated all round player they would never sign!