Eleven of them, all summed up in one table.
And to think, in January 2019, I might have a “KL” column of my very own, with an “x” in the row for Tim Raines.
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The collected thoughts of sportswriter, bookworm, & food critic Keith Law
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Who is Pedro Gomez, and WTF???
Olney votes for Morris and doesn’t vote for Blyleven. Brilliant.
It is tempting to slam people but I think most of these, ESPN guys, could give their reasons and let’s be honest the only no brainer gets all 11 votes.
I’d probably be with the Neyer/Law fringe (Raines, Blyleven, Rickey maybe Trammell) except I would not have McGwire baked, boiled or shampooed – Bonds, Clemens, Pudge, Sheffield, any drug cheat you name aussi – judged from the ludicrously easy ride JC Romero is getting that maybe a European sophistry/sensibility [your call] about obvious, deliberate and considered cheats.
Buster Olney doesn’t vote for Blyleven or Rice. Thus I lose another notch of respect for a commentator I used to enjoy quite a bit. And no Trammell too. Sigh.
My 6 would be Henderson, Raines, McGwire, Blyleven, Trammell and John (with logic in the link if anyone cares).
Jon: Nevermind that there are other types of “cheaters” in the Hall, I don’t see how anyone saying definitely no to any PED players can feel comfortable voting for a player from the 90s. Just look at the list you put up, none tested positive that I can recall, they were just highly scrutinized and something turned up. I’m not sure where Pudge comes in here; is that just a guess based on career path and visual clues? What about Bagwell? Piazza? They hit a lot of HRs. Griffey everyone assumes no but he broke down a lot which happened to a good portion of users. Jeter? Maddux? Not the same physical signs? Alex Sanchez wasn’t a big guy at all. There’s just so much amateur sleuthing involved that its shaping up to be the guys that the media/investigators targeted are the ones who will pay. I guarantee that if the 5 I listed (or any other 5 superstars from the 90s you want to pick) were all put under the same microscope as Bonds and Clemens, atleast one turns up dirty.
I just find it strange that Gomez votes for Jay Bell and not for Blyleven. I know that pitchers and position players are apples and oranges, but come on. Jay Bell? Really? That .343 OBP and OPS+ of 101? He is, quite literally, average in every respect of the word.
Well, I’ve seen much worse things rolled out today. *cough*Microsoft*cough
Jay Bell was one helluva bunter, apparently. I totally forgot he hit 38 homers with 112 RBI in 1999. That’s almost a Brady Anderson-level anomaly.
Jon UK, they might all have their reasons, but it would be interesting to hear some of them. For instance, why did Buster Olney choose Morris, but not Blyleven? Why did Pedro Gomez vote for Jay Bell? In my wildest dreams, I would never think that Jay Bell would get a Hall of Fame vote. And, why did both Buster and Pedro vote for Andre Dawson (and his .323 OBP), but not Tim Raines (and his .385 OBP). Apparently, Raines got the memo in the Expos locker room about the importance of getting on base and not making outs. Somehow, the “feared” Dawson (and the so-called baseball experts Olney and Gomez) did not read the same memo.
What about Michael Knisley (sp?)? Who is he? He has the strangest ballot there (Rickey and Lee Smith). At least I can understand the angle the pro-Rice, pro-Morris, pro-Dawson people are using, even if I don’t agree with them. I’m not sure what his logic is at all.
And for the record, I am a “small Hall” guy, so I’m probably more critical than most.
All I will say is that Jay Bell was a more valuable player than Jim Rice, so Pedro Gomez didn’t do anything worse than anyone else on that list.
Voting for Jay Bell, but NOT for Tim Raines… I really can’t figure the logic. Bell wins where?
Hitting?
Running?
Fielding?
Hmm… maybe Jay Bell wins by virtue of surname shortness?
Has Pedro Gomez explained the vote? Is it just a guy he maybe covered as a beat writer at one time and liked, so he decided to vote for him?
As far as Raines, I still think he’s the polar opposite of Rice in that if he had played in NY or Boston he might have gone in last year (and almost certainly this year or the next).
Pedro Gomez was a general sports columnist for the Arizona Republic from 1997-2003 (according to Wikipedia, anyway). Jay Bell played for the Diamondbacks from 1998-2002, and he had one very good year in 1999.
I’m guessing it was just a vote for a guy who Gomez had liked while covering the Diamondbacks. Either that or it was the 13th-place finish in the MVP voting in ’99.
By 2019, I’m sure you’ll have an “X” in the Eckstein column, Keith.
It is sad that some of these morons have votes and we have to wait 10 years for Keith and Rob Neyer to vote. By then, if not already, the Hall will be one of good to great players and not one consisting solely of the best of the best.
Why do they have to wait ten years by the way? Why not five? Like the players waiting to become eligible.
For that matter, why do they have to wait at all? Do they have to “learn the ropes” from the likes of Peter Schmuck?
The only thing I’ll ever remember Pedro Gomez for is chasing around Barry Bonds. He was literally ESPN’s Barry Bonds beat reporter.
Jay Bell? Apparently Mike Bordick isn’t eligible yet.
“All I will say is that Jay Bell was a more valuable player than Jim Rice, so Pedro Gomez didn’t do anything worse than anyone else on that list.”
What??? That statement is almost as absurd as the vote for Bell itself. Jay Bell, really? Off with their heads!
And let me tell you, if Rice gets in and further waters down the Hall, then Dawson should get in too, and it just gets worse and worse. Look, just because they voted in Tony Perez doesn’t mean it deserves another foolish mistake. I would vote for Ricky, no question and maybe Blylevin and Raines. Possibly Trammel.
That statement about Bell/Rice isn’t all that absurd. Bell was a league-average hitter that played very good defense up the middle. Rice was a good hitter that played relatively poor defense in left field (and spent 25% of his career as a DH).
WARP3, for example, has Bell at 88.8 for his career (with 2 seasons at 10.6 and 11.1, 1993 and 1997). Rice is at 80.2, and his highest season, 1978, was 9.7.
Maybe Pedro Gomez thought he was supposed to “x” out the guys he thinks shouldn’t be in.
That can be the only possible explanation for the Bell/Parker votes.
Favoite moment from the Klaw chat:
“Brian (Jersey): Please dont post Scott from Princeton, he is making us Yankee fans look bad. Here is a real question for you. Do you think the Yankees should trade Melky straight up for Peavy. I know Melky is young and I would hate to lose him, and Peavy is an injury risk, but I think it is worth it for the Yanks.”
This is funny on two levels: one, for making fun of another poster who obviously couldn’t be more dumb, and then for the rediculous trade offer. Maybe it was a joke?
Apologies for not coming back on why I would keep the PEDlers out – I was guilty of PUI and actually imagined I wrote even more rubbish than I did… (embarrasment!)
I would not vote for these guys. I accept that some were caught up in it but with reasonable suspicion, no. I think the behaviour of McGwire and Sosa shows how ashamed they were so they knew what they were doing. Seriously if you hated McGwire you make him have to undergo an inauguration and face the media.
I only named the players I clearly knew from what I pick up over here – your libel laws are great we could not even suggest even a Bagwell here without legal issues. Maybe if Biggio/Pizza is tarred you’re left with Frank Thomas, Jeter, A-Rod, Glavine, Maddux, Mussina, Johnson maybe Alomar, Smoltz, Schil (I am sure I will have missed someone but instant recall all across baseball is hard). Hell some of them maybe tainted.
One thing I would challenge is the idea players started serious PEDs in 1988! I bet certainly pitchers and others if they took amphetamines would have taken ‘roids for the recovery factor if nothing else. Maybe in Oakland they started getting big but let’s not be naive – British athletes like David Jenkins went to the States from the early 70s to take steroids, hard to believe US baseball players forsook what everyone else was doing. That they somehow never used gyms with footballers and body builders and track athletes? Your collegiate system makes that impossible.
Pudge loses 2 stone and falls off a cliff in terms of power and OBP. OPS893 falls to 734 and pretty much stays there. Makes some excuse at spring training as ‘roid testing starts. Circumstantial?
BTW On Jay Bell let’s assume the journalist is a friend/fan/humanist/got a signed ball for a kid once and does not want to see him get 0 votes and if he was not voting for anyone else fine – it’s the kind of thing a bleedin’ heart liberal (OK on PEDs I am a conservative) like me might do if I knew someone and as I would only vote for 4 or 5 I might.
Gomez voted for 7 so I’d allow that one selection which might and one hopes is for a 100 other reasons.