Aaaaand we’re back. Apparently some morons thought that meadowparty.com was a political site, so they defaced the main page. Therefore, I intend to vote for whichever candidate takes the hardest line on moron hackers.
I’ll be chatting early Thursday, at 11 am EDT, and probably for only 45 minutes to an hour.
I’ve heard rumors it was Albert Pujols and Grady Sizemore while Ryan Howard and Francisco Rodriguez have been doing everything in their power to stop them. Does this alter your opinions on the MVP races?
Alexei Ramirez has to be a prime suspect. Word is his hacking skills are unparalleled.
(ba-dum-bum.)
So you can add hacking to the reasons for Pujols not to win MVP, in addition to his poor pitching performance this year.
What is the Meadow Party’s platform? Is it a more extreme version of the Green Party? Maybe you can lure Nader to your party by making up a touching story about your parents dying in a Corvair accident.
I thought the Meadow Party officially endorsed Bill The Cat and was a strong supporter of flightless waterfowl rights. Clearly subversive.
Keith,
I hope you don’t mind that I’m posting a comment rather than trying to get this into your chat since it was brief today.
You made a passing comment that you didn’t “understand the casual fan’s antipathy towards Scott Boras”. Is that really true?
I understand the position that you don’t think he does anything wrong by representing his clients and getting them the most money, or the position that MLB/Pittsburgh is more to blame in the Alvarez fiasco.
What I don’t get is how you can say you don’t understand why casual fans hate Boras. To the casual fan, a $3M difference over a 5 or 6 year contract doesn’t seem like enough for a player to leave a team, or choose a worse situation…to the casual fan it seems like he pushes his clients where his interests are maximized (highest commission, bragging rights for record bonuses, contract lengths, etc.) over their best interests.
I’m not saying the fan perception is always right, but surely you can understand why they/we would feel that way? A little empathy here and acknowledge emotionally-charged thinking, Caption Rational Thinker!
Keith,
In regards to the Brewers, they have to let CC and Sheets walk and take the two comp picks for each. Any chance we move Weeks to CF, with Hardy moving to second (or being traded) and Escobar playing SS? What about Mat Gamel and Brad Nelson? Oh and I’d also like to get a new hitting coach that can get Bill Hall to consistently hit the ball the other way and get Corey Hart to lay off a slider.
Re: herbs and spices. The more the better. Though, quality trumps quantity and will lessen the need for them. I generally find most recipes are written for blander palettes than my own.
SA,
Usually it is probably more than 3M over 5-6 years, but even if it is who are you or anybody else to say what is ENOUGH to leave a team. How do you know exactly what a WORSE situation is for said client. How can you say you know the player’s best interest more than Scott Boras who, I dont know, knows these people. Boras works hard, and does his job to the best of his ability. The player still has the right to say where he wants to sign. There is a reason that the player signed Boras in the first place.
Personally I don’t think there is a whole lot to empathize with other than blind small market fans who can’t keep these free agents thinking that staying in their town is always the best situation for their favorite player despite the longer, higher dollar contract. This is coming from a Marlins fan, before you accuse me of not understanding how small market fans feel.
I can’t say I know anyone’s best interest and didn’t say I did…I’m just saying I find fault with anyone who can’t understand why casual fans would resent Boras.
I don’t have a problem with Boras doing his job, but there is a consequence of encouraging his clients to value total compensation over other criteria. A-Rod signing in Texas comes to mind as an example.
Boras is paid by commission, so it’s in his interests to steer his clients to a situation where he gains the most, and when his client isn’t happy where he is, he can force a trade and take the big contract with him wherever he goes.
There are many of us in far lesser income brackets who understand you don’t let salary drive your career. But that’s not my central point here.
I’m also curious to know Keith’s view on the Simmons piece regarding Manny.
I agree with SA. While I don’t wholeheartedly agree with Simmons’ piece (Manny IS ultimately responsible for his own actions), its quite clear that Boras was working behind the scenes to orchestrate the whole circus. THIS is an example of why the casual fan hates him. To the casual fan, the game is the most important thing, and he doesn’t want anyone screwing with that for selfish, greedy reasons. Boras is great at his job, but being great at his job means placing the fans’ interest at the bottom of his priority list.
SA,
I fully understand what Boras’ job, and intentions are and don’t really have a problem with it. Most player’s representation, in whatever it may be, do the same thing, he does it better.
What was the consequence of A-Rod signing in Texas?
You may not let salary drive your career but I’m betting a lot of these hyper competitive and ambitious people who play professional sports do. I doubt these players are really wanting to leave a bunch of money on the table and Boras talks them out of it.
Rick,
I read the Simmon’s piece and IF he orchestrated the whole thing (I don’t think he did.) I could see fan’s problem with that, at least Boston fans. Remember for a second Simmon’s is probably the most biased person you could find to write that article. However the idea that the game is the most important thing, and the bottom line isn’t, is steeped in naivety. Boras just gets publicity for things every agent aims to do because he is the biggest and the best.
Matt, the question was posed as how Keith couldn’t understand the casual fan’s antipathy towards Scott Boras, not whether or not the casual fan thinks Scott Boras is good at his job or what his intentions are. This has been explained to you a couple times now.
I completely understand a casual fan’s antipathy towards Boras. Whether or not the fan’s reasoning is justified isn’t what the question was about.
Matt, no disagreement here – Boras is clearly the best at his job and of course the bottom line is what drives the game. But you are still missing the point: this is an argument about the CASUAL FAN, and why he can’t stand Boras. Of course Simmons is biased, but he didn’t exactly invent the theory about Boras orchestrating the transaction. Its obvious, Boras would only receive his commission if Manny got out of his contract. If you wan’t to talk about naivete, that would be believing that Boras consistently acts in good faith.
I guess I still don’t understand the antipathy. My argument was just that, the reasoning feels unjustified so I don’t understand why the casual fan would have such feelings.
I guess I was just looking at it from the wrong perspective.
SA – Of course Boras steers his clients to the situation where he gains the most…his gains are directly related to that of his clients. When Boras wins, so do his clients. If compensation isn’t the most paramount issue to prospective clients, why does he continue to be the most popular agent for top-earning players? It isn’t like Boras’ reputation is only known amongst fans. If his advice has “consequences,” I’m waiting to see those consequences reflected in players choices for agents.
Matt J – That’s a separate issue.
It’s win/win for players these days…sign for top dollar and if the team can’t win and/or the player becomes unhappy, the team moves the player for less than market value and pays a team to take the contract off their books.
A-Rod, Manny and Mike Hampton come to mind.
Again, I’m not blaming a player or his agent for the inability of a team to win, or to find an owner willing to give them the money. But there are no consequences for the player or his agent by getting top dollar because they can get a winning/”happy” situation after the fact.
So to answer the question, Boras gets top dollar and has leverage to eventually get his clients into a good situation, which is why his clients love him. Hell, if he were my agent, I’d love him (and boy, could I use him these days!). It almost backfired with his manoeuvre on the Yanks last offseason until Hank Jong-Il backtracked, but I think that entire situation was well thought out and anticipated by Boras and A-Rod.
But to be clear – the issues of whether Boras does a good job, or why his clients hire him are not the same as whether it’s understandable why a casual fan would resent him.
SA- “to the casual fan it seems like he pushes his clients where his interests are maximized (highest commission, bragging rights for record bonuses, contract lengths, etc.) over their best interests.”
That was your initial response. We’ve been through this argument, and we have pretty much determined his best interests are their best interest. Still I see no reason why a casual fan should have a problem with any of this. You keep saying it is a seperate issue but it is not.
He does his job well, gets bap publicity for it that makes him look bad for the game and the casual fan misinterprets the situation due to the media. Therefore any antipathy towards him is misguided and I don’t understand why people would have it.
You see no reason why a casual fan would have a problem with him announcing A-Rod’s free agency during the World Series? You see no reason why a casual fan would have a problem with him taking their favorite player from their favorite team and allowing them to leave to the highest bidder? You see no reason why a casual fan would have a problem with a man who they think hurts the game because he helps widen the gap between the richer teams and the poorer teams? You see no reason why a casual fan would have a problem with a man who has single-handedly changed the 1st round of the amateur draft and forced the poorer teams to draft non-Boras clients? Shall I go on?
Whether you agree with how he works has never been the issue here. Keith saying he doesn’t see how a casual fan could have a problem with anything I just mentioned above is what started all this.
I think the casual fan also resents SB’s negotiating tactics. He doesn’t begin draft pick contract talks until the last minute, plays imaginary bidders against other teams, and by all accounts pushes the boundaries of good faith negotiations. He seems like a jerk, and most people don’t like jerks.
This isn’t to say I don’t think he does a good job, or he shouldn’t be allowed to do what he does, but he does make baseball less fun, at least to me.
But should they dislike Boras for those things? I don’t see why. Free agency is a part of the game, everybody uses it to their advantage not just Boras. Get used to it. Widening the gap and all.
I have no problem with the draft stuff, I do have a problem with sport’s drafts in general. I think they are borderline criminal.
The A-rod thing is a joke. Nobody should care when the news of his contract hits the wire, and the networks shouldn’t have played it up like they did.
Matt, if you don’t see why some of this stuff might upset people, and cause them to dislike Boras, there really isn’t much of a conversation here. It isn’t a question of whether people should or shouldn’t dislike boras, the fact is many people don’t, and they have reasonable- if not perfectly rational- reasons for their feelings.